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Let carebears be carebears (PVP Opt Out)

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Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 15:35:00 - [1] - Quote Follow me for a minute here, we're going to take a logical journey! Many players in this thread and others have stated that there are not nearly as many carebears as you think. So, why is it such a big deal to all these "PvPers" that opting out of PvP is made / kept impossible? If the amount of true PvE only carebears in the game is as small as many people claim, what's the overall loss to PvP in EvE? The loss is minor, if even noticed by actual PvPers, since most carebears don't go anywhere near the PvP focused areas in the game. No, the people who lose by allowing carebears to opt out of PvP are the griefers. Please, don't try to call yourselves PvP players, you who spend your time waging war in high security space. It is not PvP when the only people who can shoot at you are industrial players who can't even fly a T1 frig properly. High sec warriors (LOL) lose out on their safe form of PvP if carebears get their way, and that just can't happen.... can it? My final question is about weighing the losses attached with implementing some sort of change. - If CCP decides to make high security space more (or completely) safe, what is the loss? Will 1000 griefers quit in rage or will they go out to low / null and join the rest of the hardcore PvP crowd? What if 1000 players re-subscribe because they can now play the game how they like without being SUDDENLY BETRAYAL by random griefers? - What is the loss to subscribers if CCP decides to make high sec griefing easier? Will carebears quit in droves? Can / will CCP support people pissing in the sandbox when it affects their bottom line? Time will tell, I'm sure.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 15:39:00 - [2] - Quote Dibblerette wrote: It also allows freedom for other players in big ships to do nasty things to your carebearmobile. Schadenfreude isn't really a good basis for a gaming community.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 16:28:00 - [3] - Quote Orlacc wrote: Without a box it is just sand. This box includes PvP. Remember what killed UO. I don't remember what killed UO, how about you remind me?
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 18:33:00 - [4] - Quote Zoidberg Gahiji wrote: It's certainly a good thing to kill what made EVE what it is today, what makes EVE special and what defines EVE's core. What lets it stand out against its competition and made it successful to begin with. An omni present sense of danger is as fundamental to EVE as fantasy to WoW is and has nothing to do with griefing. Complaining that there is PvP in a PvP game is ridiculously moronic and stupid. If you don't like PvP don't play a PvP game. End of story. And if you think EVE is not a PvP game you certainly do not even comprehend what you are actually playing. This whole thread is nonsense. Listen to me and don't make assumptions. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT REMOVING PVP. PvP will still exist in every facet of the game, except high sec griefing of people who are not interested in PvP. The argument is that the amount of actual carebears is small, so I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain what the detriment to PVP would be if 1000 people who actively avoid pvp were suddenly immune to it?
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 18:37:00 - [5] - Quote Charlotte Elizabeth wrote: Oh yeah, lets just allow people to opt in and out of PvP at their own convenience. That won't break the game at all. Nobody is talking about opting in and out of PVP. We are talking about removing non-consensual PvP as a tool for griefers. Stop pretending the PvP world would fall apart if you couldn't grief highsec industrialists. A vast majority of PvP takes place in low and null security space. In fact, nearly all PvP that occurs in high security space is griefing. So what's the loss to PvP if high sec griefing is curtailed? Is the game really that worse off with griefing removed? I'm still waiting on a valid, non slippery slope argument to why griefing in high security space should be allowed to continue.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 18:42:00 - [6] - Quote Rond Dorlezahn wrote: You haven't thought this through at all. If you were to implement this opt-out mechanic, it would get abused harder than CONCORD response time in hisec is currently being abused. It would not be 1000 players who used it, it would be anyone who could get an edge out of it at any time, unless you're talking about creating a character from the ground up who cannot PvP--which means it wouldn't be able to shoot at OTHER players, mind, because it has to go both ways. If you roll a character like that, I might refer you to several other MMOs that will wipe your baby ass for you. How would it be abused? If you don't want to PvP you stay in high security space, that's it. Lower security space provides better rewards in line with the danger of going there, so the only people who will stay in high security space are people who don't want to PvP. Why is this bad? If you want to get really rich fast you'll have to leave the safe area. If you want to be bored out of your mind you can sit in highsec and mine veldspar until your eyes bleed. Honestly, I haven't seen a valid argument about why highsec shouldn't have PvP removed. Everyone who posts is just talking about the danger factor... which still exists in low and null sec. No, the only people who would fight against high sec being safe are the griefers themselves, who cannot survive in low / null because they can only win when they fight easy targets.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 18:48:00 - [7] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: The problem is that what you are trying to advocate goes against the wonderful sandbox that is eve. As I said on page two (which probably got missed). The thing about the sandbox is that every choice you have has consequences. What you and the OP seem to be glossing over is this fact. You seem to want some way of avoiding pvp altogether without any consequence. The OP for example wants his 5 man corp without being prone to wardecs. Adding some opt out without any consequence would break the sandbox. So the question would be what would you be willing to sacrifice or pay for this opt out program? The sandbox argument is complete bull. If the sandbox were true, there would be no CONCORD and no faction navy, and everyone could just mill about blowing up whatever they wanted without consequence. The game as it is now goes against that logic because CONCORD and faction navies do exist. If concord followed logic, anyone who commits a crime in the area they patrol would be prevented from entering that area permanently. Hell give them a 3 strikes rule would even be more likely than it is now. Instead concord simply blows up their ship and effectively forgets they ever did anything wrong after 15 minutes. The notion of a sandbox is not true, it's just what griefers try to use to guard their ability to grief.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 18:51:00 - [8] - Quote Commissar Veldt wrote: It can be annoying losing ships or being war dec'd yes, but its part of the game full stop. EVE is marketed on its ability to give ALL players the freedom do what they want within its universe. This statement isn't exactly true, because players who want to avoid PvP by staying in the supposed secure area cannot avoid PvP. A player who wants to remain free of PVP is unable to do so, which makes your statement blatantly false.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.13 23:51:00 - [9] - Quote Jayrendo Karr wrote: How about we just save CCP time and trouble and take an axe to the servers, either way the result is the same. Contrary to popular belief, EvE will not collapse if we get rid of griefing.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.14 03:54:00 - [10] - Quote Sugar Kyle wrote: Non consensual PVP is not griefing. Just because you do not like or want it does not mean it is grief. This is a game where everyone can interact with you in positive and negitive ways. It is a game where your choice matters. Because.you chose to avoid and not learn to pvp does not make PVP towards you an act of grief. No, you are flat out wrong. It IS griefing. The only reason for high sec wardecs is to cause grief and get easy kills. It's pure schadenfreude. Quote: You choose to be a victim. Even if you do not want to shoot back you can still figure out other ways to solve your problems. Think, stratagize. Do not just sit there and try to force the game not to be mean to you because you decided after you started playing that you only liked one piece of the game. You decided not to take care of yourself in a game designed to make all of your actions count. No, the point of staying in high security space was NOT to be a victim. The amount of high sec war declarations and general grief play had skyrocketed exponentially in the past year. I believe this is caused by CCP's failure to rein in some of the excessive imbalances. Quote: I hate bubbles with a Passion. I learned to move around them and deal with them. I don't come to the forums and demand that I recieve an anti bubble flag because they ruin my plans. Bubbles cannot be placed in high security space. You could avoid encountering bubbles by staying out of low security space. Quote: I do not understand how one can so blindly scream "exempt me because I do not want to take responsibility for my choices which include selecting a game with not 100% safe zone to play in and forces me to take responsibility for my choices" and think that any part of this out out plan can make sense. It has nothing to do with wanting exemptions, any everything to do with CCP making high security space actually secure. Nothing in the beginner portion of the game (when I started quite a long time ago) explained to me that you could be forcefully dragged into PvP no matter where you were. No, the game tutorial explained to me what high security space was and that I shouldn't venture into low or null sec space unless I was ok with being shot at by other players. The game even WARNS you when you go into low security space that you're entering a PvP area. There is no such warning when undocking in Jita. Quote: You chose to do activities that bring a higher PVP risk. That may be as simple as fitting a billion ISK worth of shinies on your ship. Choices were made. Not every action is going to end I. A positive manner. Obviously. If I fly a 2 billion dollar pirate BS into old man star, I deserve to wake up in my clone, but when a person is doing everything in their power to operate in a safe fashion, that should be a possibility in the 'sandbox'. "Eve is full of a type of person willing to take responsibility for their choices. That must be to strange of a concept for you." Interesting choice for a personal attack. If I extend our in game personas to real life, I am a business person and you are a sociopath. Interesting parallel, eh? Flat out, I understand that some people play this game solely because they can delight in the pain they cause to others. It's sad, but true. My only suggestion is that CCP create a way for other players to avoid these social outcasts.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.17 21:03:00 - [11] - Quote I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with what is PvP and what is not... The OP was specifically talking about non-consensual PvP via suicide gank, being tricked into agression, and high sec war. So much for the gankbears trying to claim they are the smarter ones in EvE.
Five Thirty School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 71	Posted - 2012.05.18 00:18:00 - [12] - Quote Non-consensual ship to ship combat. Is that simple enough for you gankbears?

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